Michael Ockrim on Big Questions with Cal Fussman
Episode: "Building New Muscles With AI"
Released: September 8, 2026 · 51 minutes
Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/building-new-muscles-with-ai/id1315791659?i=1000788418564
Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/TCAuDKcw44A
Cal Fussman has interviewed Muhammad Ali, Mikhail Gorbachev, Jeff Bezos, Serena Williams, and John Wooden. On this episode of Big Questions he sat down with Michael Ockrim, founder and head strength coach of Mighty Oak Athletic in Westmont, Illinois, for a conversation about getting the best out of artificial intelligence while avoiding the worst — told from a gym in the western suburbs of Chicago, not from Silicon Valley.
What the conversation covers
The 1992 weight room. Michael tells the story of walking into the Fenwick High School weight room as a husky, acne-prone 13-year-old, getting taken under the wing of an older teammate, and waking up the next morning unable to lift his arms. That soreness was the signal something had changed, and strength training has been the through line of his life for 34 years since.
AI as a barbell, not a diet pill. There are two ways to lose weight: the shortcut that moves a number on a scale, and the work that builds a stronger person. Michael argues AI is the same fork. Used like a diet pill, it gives quick answers and leaves you no more capable. Used like a barbell, with reps and attention, it builds an ability you didn't have before. He walks Cal through how that played out in real life: handling a copyright demand letter against his small business, re-shopping a dozen insurance policies for better coverage at $5,000 less a year, and compressing a month of accounting paperwork into two hours.
The 2027 divide. Michael's prediction, formed in the window of a Harlem burger shop watching New York walk by: there is a group leaning into these tools and a group that's going to get caught flat-footed, and the gap between them is going to be uncomfortable. Cal names it before Michael does — that's the sore arms after lifting. Growth hurts first.
In Michael's words
"That discomfort was signaling that something had happened. I had affected change."
"I see it as a tool. And I understand how to utilize the tool. No different than walking into a gym."
"I'm just a regular guy in the middle that is leaning into these tools and using them."
"It's not that we can't manage it, it's the speed at which it is happening."
About Cal Fussman
Cal Fussman is a New York Times bestselling author, former Esquire writer-at-large behind the "What I've Learned" series, and host of Big Questions, a podcast on how humans get the best out of artificial intelligence. More at calfussman.com.
About Michael Ockrim and Mighty Oak Athletic
Michael Ockrim, CSCS, is the founder and head strength coach of Mighty Oak Athletic, a youth strength and conditioning gym at 6424 S. Cass Ave. in Westmont, IL. Founded in 2013, MOA trains kids and student athletes ages 6 to 18 using barbells, kettlebells, and bodyweight in every session, with athletes progressing through a nine-level shirt system. He is the author of Death Resistant, 13 Pounds in 30 Days, and MOA Nutrition.
Every new athlete's first session is free. Book it here: https://calendly.com/mightyoakathletic/youth-strength
Media and podcast inquiries: coach@mightyoakathletic.com